Crisis of Conscience

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Posts by Crisis of Conscience

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  12

  Do JW's get "Brownie Points" for Converting People?

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an older clip, but joel engardio who produced "knocking" thinks they do not.. http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/30425016.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  White Doveshe had 5 BS at the time

  Doesn't BS normally stand for Bull S**T? So where did this woman find all this crap? Was she raised on a farm? LOL
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  75

  How Many Here Actually "Handled The Microphones"?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Crisis of Conscience

  OOH!! Pick me!! Pick me!!

  I had the "privilege" and currently still do. I don't mind handling the mics or even the sound booth. It keeps me distracted.

  And while doing the sound recently during the meeting, I "paid attention"...............to my cellphone. I viewed and read this apostate website! The Horror!! I'm going to die!! LOL
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  30

  If still "in", how do you feel when praying in front of a group despite being in doubt of your beliefs?

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it happened to me this weekend.

  i'm curently "active" and had some long time friends from a different congregation over for dinner.. we went through the formality of praying before the meal.

  normally or rather lately i've been passing it off to someone else.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  It happened to me this weekend. I'm curently "active" and had some long time friends from a different congregation over for dinner.

  We went through the formality of praying before the meal. Normally or rather lately I've been passing it off to someone else. But for some reason this time I didn't do it. Instead I went for it and prayed. And for the first time I felt and noticed in myself a complete disconnection. Everything I said I feel just came out because that is what I have been taught or conditioned to say over the years. They had some meaning in the past, I admit, and sometimes strongly. But this time, nothing. And I don't even feel guilty about it.

  I'm actually in shock that I feel like this so quickly. That I have come to this realization. Perhaps the "truth" never did really take root in my heart.

  I guess I can consider that a good thing. But at the same time it makes me wonder how many more times I'm going to be in that situation, especially since I'm not in a position to leave the org right now nor have decided if or how it would happen. And how am I going to handle it?

  So of those here that were/are in that position, how did/do you feel? What thoughts went/go through your head as you spew out random thoughts to appease the believers? Were/are you able to handle it? Or how did/do you handle it?

  Thanks in advance for the responses and feel free to include experiences that others can benefit from.
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  31

  privilleges equals spirituality

  by stillin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what a sad joke!

  posters here talk about the "do more" pushiness in the organization and that is so true!

  elders just assume that you want to carry microphones and work your way up the spiritual ladder to that blissful state of total immersion in "kingdom matters.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  poor places & cult classic

  I completely agree, 100%. Over the last 2 years or so, I've been spoken to about all those things. I'm currently an MS. The elders have been wanting to recommend me. Service hours were no problem but supposedly commenting was, more so on my wife's part. And they spoke to me about a few other things. I was all for it and doing my best to fit the mold until I really started questioning how the Holy Spirit is invoved in all this. What does it take to be perfect in the little things that aren't scriptual?

  I said to myself, how can an elder or his wife not comment enough or not support Saturday service, or whatever else, continue to do that and not loose his "privilege" of being an elder? But supposedly I wasn't meeting the qualifications because I was lacking.

  Now I've never been after a position, so that didn't upset me, but it just didn't make sense. You are exempt when you become an elder? So the last time I was talked to about it I let the brothers know that right now I do not want to be an elder. Who would've thought that after I started questioning things and researching I would've come to the conclusion that I NEVER want to be an elder.

  I was appointed a servant in my late teens. That should have never happened. Holy spirit? I doubt it! And all these years, though I've strived to become more 'spiritual', I have never felt it, even despite praying for it. Yet the brothers say it is obvious that I've been blessed and have God's spirit. Whatever!

  I know I've rambled a bit but all in all, privileges never define spirituality. If it did, many of us wouldn't be on here based on JW standards. But look how we were pushed. I don't reget it though.
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  80

  At a 2 day assembly ...the point that the brother spoke about that drove me mad....."don't hug your husband, wife or child during prayer".

  by crazy2try in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i attended one day of a two day assembly and did ok until the very last talk.

  the brother was from bethal and well jw's pay closer attention to their talks, cause that is when some new info is given,,,right.

  well anyways i lost focus and began to daydream, cause it became one of those talks that just talks about wasting time.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  I almost joined this forum when the Watchtower article was discussed at the hall.

  Then wouldn't you know it, a few weeks after, as I sit down after the opening prayer, an elder from across the aisle whispers to me loudly, "PSSST, PSSST (To get my attention)" And then still whispering loudly and doing a shame on you sign with his fingers says, "You shouldn't hug your wife during the prayer. It's not proper." I gave him a look of disgust and mouthed, "What!! What are you talking about!"

  Amazingly enough he didn't say anything to me after the meeting.

  Boy did that piss me off! I told my wife about it and how ridiculous that is. Now here is the thing on how I feel. Of the X amount of years that I have been married to my wife, I always put my arm around my wife and she does the same to me during the prayer. Never once in the past was I talked to about it nor was it considered a sin. I went as far as looking up the word the article used, 'embrace.' A word involving two arms around a person, which I'm not doing, but there is nothing wrong with.

  Are you FREAKIN' kidding me!! An elders interpretation failed to even grasp what the word means.

  Needless to say I haven't stopped doing that nor will I. It wasn't a sin in the past nor is it now! Saying a prayer while being that close to my wife has always been intimate for my wife and I. And I highly doubt I have offended God by doing what I've done all these years. But the GB hath spoken, so let it be done, so let it be written.

  Now that I'm done ranting, this next bit is probably TMI. But for some reason, when I first got married and I was a good little JW, every time I studied the Watchtower with my wife, it was on like Donkey Kong. Meaning somehow our clothes came off and we ended up in the bedroom. We aren't that kinky so we never used a threefold cord (no pun intended)!
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  64

  Did leaving the WT build greater appreciation for or kill your reading of the Bible?

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am really on the fence on this issue right now and would love some opinions.. i find that i dont sit down and read the bible for long periods since becoming inactive, but on the other hand, individual scriptures mean much more to me now.. i will sit down and look up some favorite passages from time to time and feel like its the first time i really "got it" - without the jw goggles on.

  i love matthew chapter 23, since i think it describes to a tee the situation in jw congregations.

  i think if jesus returned today, he would blast the elders and "leaders" of the borg in a similar fashion (along with most religious leaders) .matthew 24 is actually more interesting to me now, simply because my whole life was waiting for the 1914 generation to end sometime during the reagan era!

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  Crisis of Conscience

  I've read the whole Bible 2 times. Once when I was at Bethel, and again over a year ago. But especially in the Hebrew scriptures what stands out to me is the brutality and killing that at times makes no sense.

  Now I was thinking, as JW's we try to disprove the evolution theory by asking, "When is the last time you saw an ape turn into a man?" So evolution can't be true and has no basis.

  Well using the same reasoning, when is the last time you saw a donkey talk (other than Donkey in Shrek), a snake talk, a person be resurrected or taken away in a windstorm, the sun stand still, the ocean split in half, a man and an angel wrestling, a burning bush, hair that gives you strength? Did these things really happen? I don't really believe it.

  Because of never seeing any of these Biblical "miracles" happen in my life, it is very hard to believe they actually happened. Why would God do this in the past to give people evidence of his power and now all of a sudden..........nada, zilch, zero, nothing. What basis do I have to believe? I've lost my faith. And yet for some reason at the moment I feel content. Almost with a "so what, who cares" attitude.

  And whatever feeling I may have had of something being real in the Bible, after reading these posts, you freakin' "apostates" killed it for sure!! LOL Thanks!

  BTW - I'm still "in."
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  13

  If reading the Bible as a JW, why bother meditating?

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was inspired to write this based on a post in another thread.. as a jw you are told to read and let the bible speak to you.. that would mean that you could reach a different conclusion on a certain scripture or account.

  but that may not coincide with what the fds has as an explanation or conclusion.

  this in turn, according to the standard makes you wrong if you "want" to be humble and wait for "new light.".

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  Crisis of Conscience

  I was inspired to write this based on a post in another thread.

  As a JW you are told to read and let the Bible speak to you.

  That would mean that you could reach a different conclusion on a certain scripture or account. But that may not coincide with what the FDS has as an explanation or conclusion. This in turn, according to the standard makes you wrong if you "want" to be humble and wait for "new light."

  And in turn makes your meditation a complete waste of time.

  Comments?
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  4

  "You Are Not the Father!"

  by leavingwt in

  1. social
  2. humour

  its' friday, folks.

  have a great weekend!.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtwssdaume.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Maury : "So Mary, regardless of the results, you would like Joseph to be Jesus' father or at least a part of his life, correct?"

  Mary : "Oh yes Maury. Very much so."

  Maury : "And you Joseph?"

  Joseph : "I jus wanna know da troof cuz I never slept with dis woman."

  Maury ; "OK then. Let's see the results. Joseph, in the case of Mary's son Jesus,..................you ARE NOT the father!!"

  Mary : (Sobbing uncontrolably)

  Joseph : (Jumping around excitedly) "I told you! I told you! I neva had relations wit dis woman!"

  LMBO
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  91

  Newbie: Roll Call ---- Oldies Returning: Roll Call

  by cameo-d in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have noticed a lot of newbies lately.

  (i also noticed that after being absent for a year happy1975 is making a return visit.).

  so, if you are a brand spanking newbie, post here and tell us a little about your interests, your state, your new direction in life, your favorite things, whatever you want to say---this is your thread.. .

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Thanks for noticing cameo-d! It feels great to be welcomed! And welcome all you new ones too!!

  I'm not too confident in posting a lot about myself yet. Nothing against anyone here of course. And I am currently trying to figure out my path in life. Despite that, I can say that this is the happiest I have felt in my life, now that I have mentally loosened myself from an organizations control. I'm still physically in and so far have been able to stomach the fables. But I really do love life.

  I'll say this, I have a great wife that I have loved deeply for more than 10 years and we will see where things go, as I have slowly been revealing my true feelings about the org, my faith, etc.

  I copied and pasted a little history from my very first post for others to read (and even added a few little extra details.)

  My story in a nutshell - Currently "serving" as a MS. Former Bethelite. Recently just stopped regular pioneering. Married almost 10 years and LOVE my wife.

  Currently reading "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz (thus the screenname and the fact that I thought it was fitting to my feelings) despite being in an "spirit appointed" position. (I'm not bragging; just providing info)

  Was recently spoken to about the high recommendation from the elder body of me becoming an elder. I feel well respected by the congregation. But nonetheless I have let a few of the elders know that I am not interested in the postion. Slowly but surely I'm cutting back on my commenting and field service (within about the last 2 months). And seriously pondering stepping down from my current position.

  What brought me here was a question that NO ONE can answer. How the hillbilly does the holy spirit work?

  Perhaps at another time I'll share what events led me to really ask that question. But for now it boils down to hypocrisy. How can people be involved in certain things or even act a certain way and yet be appointed by holy spirit? (This is even one of the issues I've tried discussing with my therapist.)

  So I started doing research on the internet and came across this site. Scared as hell when I started reading the posts but very quickly realized that I wasn't the only one with doubts. I finally felt that people could actually relate to how I felt. We are not all zombies!! And then I got over the guilty feeling of being here really quick.

  I didn't join right away though because I had told my wife about my some of my doubts and "research." She was disturbed but felt good that I wasn't directly communicating with anyone by posting. So I respected her wishes for a few months. But I couldn't take it any longer. I need an outlet.

  My wife has actually loosened up a bit, much to my surprise. However, she is not aware of my posting here. But certain things she has said recently make me think she has her doubts. Time will tell.

  Am I to think the holy spirit led me here to start posting? I HIGHLY doubt it. And I just refuse to believe that everyone here went apostate. I think that should be left up to perception, not upper management's judgement. And to be honest, I've come to the realization that I HATE RELIGION!!

  I still believe in God though, but I believe I am becoming a bit agnostic.

  Hope this helps all in getting to know me a little bit. Thanks for letting me be heard. It's actually quite therapeutic!
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  44

  New Here!! And finally I can post.

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking for quite a while but i finally gave in to my "apostate" heart and joined!

  i'm so excited!.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  I agree that I've felt like petitebrunette in saying - I wish I could say that I was the type of Bible reader that had unanswered questions, and awakenings to the real truth, but basically I always thought it was "the Truth" but I just wasn't living it.

  WOW! WOW! I can't believe all the responses I've gotten. I never realized it would feel this good to have someone just listen. I can't remember what all the posts said, but i know they all translate to, "It's alright CoC. We understand and feel your pain."

  I hope I can be as encouraging to others as you all have been. That's the one thing I have always tried to be in being a JW. I love people!! And I have many good, good friends that are like family. But when things don't add up I figured out that it is to dificult to say that I'll just go with it because I have friends, because that doesn't make sense.

  Thanks again and definitely WELCOME to all the new ones!